From Pastor to Pro: Third-Generation Contractor Takes a Leap of Faith and Build Successful Business (Ep #2)
00:03
Tom: Hello and welcome to the Profiles Podcast presented by LL Flooring. I'm Tom Kraeutler, and if you're a remodeler, a builder, an installer, a general contractor. This podcast is about helping you become more successful in your business by sharing tips and ideas and solutions. To do that, we seek out successful pros who are willing to come on the program and share their experiences for your benefit. It's our goal that with every episode, you'll pick up an idea or two that you can put to work to help you find some new customers improve your business operation, maybe eliminate a friction point and increase your profits. Now we get that this is a business where we often work alone, but as the king or the queen of the castle you've built. It's not always practical to share ideas and ask questions with those you compete against locally. But as a community of hands-on home, improving and building pros, we've got a lot to share with each other and that's what we want to feature on the Profiles podcast. So, to that end, we would love to hear from you. Please reach out to share an idea, ask a question or suggest a topic or maybe even a guest. We'd love to hear your tips for working with your customers, your suppliers and running your business. You can reach us by emailing profiles@llflooring.com. That's profiles@llflooring.com or by visiting the LL Flooring Pro portal at llflooring.com/pro. Now let's get to work.
Megachurch Pastor Launches Remodeling Business: Meet Lance O’Dell
01:40
My guest today is a third-generation remodeling contractor who found his way to a successful remodeling business after spending a decade as a professional speaker and producer of religious programming. Lance O'Dell is based in Austin, Texas, and his work includes installation services for LL Flooring customers, along with a wide range of remodeling and restoration work. Lance, welcome to the podcast.
01:52
Lance: Hey, Tom, thanks so much for having me. It's going to be awesome. Looking forward to it.
01:56
Tom: So, Lance, you are a remodel, you're a builder, you do restoration work and you've specialized as a part of LL Flooring installation team and installing flooring for folks that don't want to do it themselves. But before all that, you spent a decade working in the Houston area in a megachurch as a pastor and also as a producer of media and programming. What an interesting background you have, sir. You went from pastor to pro-remodeler in the course of a decade. How did that happen?
02:32
Lance: Yeah. So, you know, the contracting side has always been a part of my life, always kind of done word of mouth, you know, contracting jobs for people kind of always had. I've just kind of always been connected to the industry. And at the same time, you know, working for church, learning a lot about producing good quality content and communicating messages to people that you want them to hear and understand translating that into a business, I think it helped a lot to making our business appealing and also providing great service.
02:59
Tom: The churches in the Texas area, the megachurches are unbelievable. I mean, if you've never seen these kinds of productions, it's Broadway quality. It's a lot different than what you find in small towns across America. I mean, it’s a huge deal. So that actually gave you a lot of experience into the media side, the speaking side, the communications side. So did you use that knowledge to help promote and build this business?
03:21
Lance: I think so. You know that because I have been I for getting to catch people's attention, and I think that I've really translated that a lot into our business in making this appealing to customers, maybe trying to set us a cut above other people in there, what they're doing as far as marketing.
Learning from the Past: Generations of Building Pros Provided Ideas and Inspiration
03:37
Tom: So, you come actually from a three-generation family of contractors, is that right?
03:42
Lance: Yeah, that's right. My grandfather used to install floors when it was a union job. He raised his family back in Los Angeles. And, you know, at one point, I believe he said he was making about $150 a week. So, if you can imagine that.
03:55
Tom: That was a lot of money.
03:56
Lance: Yeah, I guess it was enough, you know, and they made it. But yeah, he's been doing for us for over 40 years. My father got into the business and has been installing floors and still works in the industry himself to this day. So, it kind of was only natural. I follow in the footsteps.
04:11
Tom: That's funny. You know, I actually got to my early pro experience by following my dad on to jobs where he was installing products. He was actually building libraries at the time, and we used to install library shelving. And it was like, for me, it was like the kid using like a big erector set, you know? So, I had a lot of enjoyment out of those years with my dad, and I bet there's a multi-generational contractor. Family flooring was the topic at the dinner table. So, what did you learn from your dad and from your grandfather?
04:37
Lance: So, it's going to an interesting question, but it's pretty simple. I mean, I think in general, I just learned a lot about doing the project the right way, you know, not cutting corners and that your reputation in this industry is pretty much all that really matters. So, the best way to keep business up is you always do a good job. Probably what I took away the most.
Strategic Social Media Drives Leads
04:56
Tom: So, so much of what we do today, you know, back in the day used to be word of mouth. It used to be Yellow Pages. Now it's all driven by social media and those types of digital connections. I saw that you guys have built a very handsome Facebook page. So, you tell me about your social media work and how that has helped your business.
05:13
Lance: I took actually a page out of another company's method for marketing by a couple of years ago in that they had decided, rather than hiring a marketing person, that that portion of that person's salary or their budget, they would actually put solely into just social media and advertising on social media. Now, we didn't have the biggest budget at the time when we started doing it, but I think I believed and understood the concept that social media was that powerful.
05:46
Does that make sense? So, if somebody would actually realize that this used to be a physical person and now it's actually just dollars you could put into social media, then the whole concept to me was this was really eye opening. And so that's kind of the path that we follow in social media is understanding that if you're going to put dollars out there for marketing, that probably the easiest, most simple place to do it is going to be in your social media.
06:11
Tom: Yeah, because you can suggest you can select your audience for that. So, you could select groups of audience that are most likely be end up being your customers and you can create content that basically is aimed at that. So as long as you could create that content in house, and you're paying attention to the content, you're paying attention to the conversions and how many folks are clicking on that ultimately ending up hiring you. And if those numbers work out.
06:37
Lance: Exactly, it doesn't, it's not super expensive either. You know, you can start with, you know, pretty much any budget and see results. And so, from there, I think we can learn a lot about what's working and what's not working and what kind of content is appealing and what is in, you know, etcetera.
LL Flooring Installs Build to a Successful Remodeling Business
06:54
Tom: So, let's talk about the different aspects of your business, starting with the work that you do for LL Flooring. Talk to me about how that works. So, customer comes into a store and LL has a group of professionals that they can recommend or refer to these customers. Do you have to go meet with those customers, or is it pretty much just show up and store the product?
07:15
Lance: Yes. So, we go out and do the measurement requests. We turn into LL Flooring going to work out the deal with the client. And once that turns into a sale, they're going to turn it back to us. And then that's the point when we come into the home, and we actually perform the installation.
Consumer Desire for Big Open Spaces Inspires New Projects
07:30
Tom: So, you get to see a lot of the before and after situations at these homes. What is it that customers want to change and what if you had a common denominator select, what are they facing when they're ordering this new flooring? What kinds of what are the reasons for the transformation? What's frustrating them about their current space?
07:49
Lance: Yeah, it usually ends up with what I've seen is maybe just trends, you know, so recently it’s like, open concept seems to be a really big trend, at least in our markets that we work in. People want to see, you know, one floor wall to wall, you know, or they want it to be a big open space. And it's the carpet touching the tile, touching this that you know that that's just too busy. What we've seen is people are looking for more of that just big open concept.
08:15
Tom: So, they really want to transform away from that feeling, feeling cluttered, feeling enclosed, feeling a bit claustrophobic into something that is going to be bright and airy and spacious. Is that about, right?
08:26
Lance; That's right. Yeah, that's what we're seeing.
Luxury Vinyl Popular: Delivers Durability Consumers Seek
08:27
Tom: And what types of products are they selecting for these projects? Is there some that are more popular than others?
08:34
Lance: We see a lot and work a lot with LVTs I mean, you'd be surprised, you know, the amount of luxury vinyl that we're putting into people's homes now. I mean, million-dollar homes all the time every day.
08:46
Tom: You know, the word vinyl has such a negative connotation for those of us that grew up with sheet vinyl products just everywhere and vinyl today, these luxury vinyl planks are just amazing. Their ability to take a design from one of hundreds of different species of wood or patterns, even tile or marble, or just this incredible array of selections of materials, natural materials that now could be transferred into vinyl. And when you're standing back and looking at it, not only does it look exactly like the real thing, it actually in some cases where it's better than the real thing, especially with the wood products. I mean, think of a soft, distressed like pine floor, right? I mean that in my house growing up, that wouldn't last a week, but the vinyl today, the vinyl plank this is so indestructible, especially for homes that have a lot of traffic, kids and pets and that sort of thing.
09:39
Lance: Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, the whole water-resistant property I think of vinyl is what's very appealing to people. You know, we see people even building new homes that instead of choosing to put tile and wet areas now vinyl is an option.
09:53
Tom: Right.
Lance: You know because it considered, you know, a water-resistant product. So, I think that's super appealing to people easy to put down. And as far as quality, I mean, there's just really nothing else like it just keeps getting better and better.
Marketing Strategy: Small Floor Projects Lead to Big Remodeling Orders
10:06
Tom: So, when you guys get started in this, I think it was about 10 years ago when you officially kicked off your construction business and stepped away from the work that you were doing with the megachurches. How did you market yourself? How was that? How was that and how has that evolved over the years?
10:22
Lance: Yeah, it's kind of always been in my back pocket, I guess you could say through word-of-mouth referral and advertising. But you know, it was actually the relationship that I had with some folks working with LL Flooring in the past and just kind of bridge that connection got together, started doing some installations for one of their newer stores. And I guess the rest is history.
10:44
Tom: So aside from the LL Flooring installations, I mean, this isn't all you do. Did you originally think, well, this would be a good job to sort of fill in the gaps of some of the other projects that you were doing, but then it almost took over?
10:55
Lance: Right. Yeah, I guess that's a good way to explain it, you know? So of course, you know, as many pros would understand, a lot of times when you focus in one area, you go into a customer's home, they're usually asking you about other projects in the home. You know, you get questions like, "Do you paint?" you know, "can you do this?" "Can you do that?". And it was kind of a natural progression as we sort of evolved from, you know, just strictly kind of working into flooring into also dabbling into, you know, tile, which then works in the showers, which looks into, you know what I'm saying? And so, I just worked on the painting, and it keeps working kind of trickling down. And so, you almost like I was saying, you almost kind of hard to adapt. You almost kind of have to evolve. And I would say it's a huge factor for us is being able to figure out how to translate and carry doing a project right for a customer into other areas as you as you expand and grow.
11:48
Tom: It's really interesting because it seems that in many ways, doing the flooring installations for LL Flooring has ceded a lot more remodeling work because as customers ask you about these projects, I mean, they're already happy to have you in their homes. Perhaps they've already just seen you complete a great installation and loved your workmanship, and now they don't let you go. So, your choice is to walk away from that job, right? Or figure out how to get it done.
12:13
Lance: Right. Exactly. Yeah, it's so interesting. And of course, like everybody else, everybody's maybe measure of success, especially as a contractor or remodeler or you need someone in this industry is, you know, is that call back customer? You know, that person knowing, "Hey, I got a guy", you know, that's the kind of goal for us.
12:30
Tom: Yeah, right? It becomes like, it's like a bragging point. "Use my guy. My guy is great.".
12:37
Lance: That's right.
12:38
Tom: Well, that's pretty awesome. Now you mentioned bathrooms. So, is that primary area of remodeling that you're doing now or are you also doing big of remodeling projects? Are you doing additions or are you doing other types of renovations, kitchens, whatever?
12:52
Lance: Yeah, mainly it's probably bathrooms and we call them put backs here. But you know, somebody wants to do all new paint, all new base, all new doors, you know, all of that sort of thing. Just kind of getting a whole new freshen up in the whole house, the cabinets, the granite, you know, new taps and all of that stuff.
13:09
Tom: Like a facelift, sort of.
13:11
Lance: There you go. Yeah. Facelift.
13:12
Tom: You know, bathroom remodeling is an interesting area to specialize in because, you know, people think, well, baths are small, how hard can it be? It's actually really hard. I mean, if you think about all of the different trades that have to be involved, then all the different steps from the rip out, to the carpentry, to the flooring work, to the plumbing work, to installing the fixtures. There's an awful lot of steps and a really small space, and that makes organizing that project and all the pros at work on it an important part of your success. So how do you achieve that sort of thing?
13:40
Lance: Yeah, I mean, to be honest, you know, I agree with you 100 percent. In fact, I've done whole homes that weren't nearly as complicated as, you know, a primary bathroom in somebody's house. You know, there's so many moving parts, so many trades, so much organizing and planning. And I think that's really just what it comes down to. It really comes down to thinking ahead, trying to foresee things and solve problems, or at least have solutions before the problem even arises. That's kind of a really hard thing to think through. You know, if this was to happen, what would we do? And you know, sometimes it doesn't go that way, and maybe you just over planned a little bit. So, you know, that's probably my answer and my advice to anybody out there is just over plan and come up with solutions before you, before you see problems.
14:30
Tom: Expect the unexpected, right?
14:32
Lance: That's right. That's right.
14:33
Tom: You promised a delivery date, for example, on fixtures for a new bath in a house where it's the only bath. So, the pressure is on. You know it to get it finished and they don't show up on time and you got a problem, right? So maybe next time you start ordering that stuff a lot earlier, because maybe if the suppliers beyond this party's control, it just didn't. It just didn't arrive and everybody's stuck waiting for it.
14:55
Lance: Sure. Well, there's always, you know, the famous customer changes their mind, you know, you know, common problem too.
Change Order Management Important to Avoid Surprises
15:01
Tom: Hey, speaking of that, change orders, that's an area of comedic of miscommunication, often with customers. How do you how do you manage that so that there's no surprises for you or the customer when it comes time to do the final invoice?
15:14
Lance: It has to start from the get-go. It really does come with setting expectations, you know, when you send out your estimate from the estimate. I have little note on the bottom that says changes are subject to change orders. Customers responsible for, you know, yada yada yada, that sort of deal and just making sure that that's understood from the get-go from the start, that if there's change work, there's going to be another conversation and it's going to involve money, you know?
15:38
Tom: Yeah. And then you document whether it's a credit or an additional charge based on what the change and the change they asked for.
15:44
Lance: Correct. Yeah. Well, basically just get something in writing, even if it's just like in an email where a text message just to make sure we're on the same page knowing, "Hey, this is, this is going to be the change."
Disaster Restoration: High-Rise Flood Demands Massive Renovation During COVID-19 Pandemic
15:52
Tom: So, we know you do flooring installations. We know you do some remodeling. I want to ask you about a project that I understand that you were involved in that is pretty interesting, and it involves a high rise building in downtown Austin. It's called the Jenga tower because it looks a lot like Jenga. And there was a major water break there that happened. I think it was just last year, last February, and this is the tallest building west of the Mississippi 685 feet tall. Only, you know, five years old, built in 2016. And the water main breaks. And the video was astounding, the water was literally pouring through the Jenga blocks many, many stories down to grade, like a like a waterfall feature that was not intended and would have been beautiful if it was certainly wasn't intended. And you guys got involved in a lot of that restoration work. So, tell me, tell me about that.
16:45
Lance: Yeah, it was. It was a real disaster. And you know, something also to point out about that building was it had just recently been finished and people had just recently moved. So, it started in 2016, but it was the people were in there all that long, huh? Right, right. I mean, it was barely people, just kind of, you know, getting settled in beautiful, beautiful property. I mean, it's a really a killer place. I mean, state of the art, this is really awesome. So, a big builder in town had reached out to us. They had gotten some of the contract to put a lot of those units back. And it was like I was saying earlier, it's like that facelift. But now it's an emergency type of situation because people are displaced out of their homes. So, you know, it was really neat to be involved in that.
17:27
Tom: You know, working in those disaster situations is so different than other types of remodeling and restoration repair work you may do because people want it put back the way it was immediately. And there's a lot of stress. There's a lot of emotion involved with just working with the customers. And then on the business side, you know, you've got supply challenges because who knew you were going to need all of this product right for all these units all at once? And there was a lot to work through, I imagine.
17:55
Lance: Yeah. So, one of those big challenges, you know, was it was right in the smack dab in the middle of COVID.
18:00
Tom: Oh yeah, of course on top of that.
18:02
Lance: Yeah, I mean, it's this is the state is being shut down. You know, there's things are literally changing by the minute daily for businesses and who can operate and who's considered essential and all these other things. And so, it puts some serious challenges. But again, you know, being able to adapt, being able to be flexible, seeing through those things because at the end of the day, people need to get back into their homes and, you know, we have a business to run here. It was it was pretty interesting. The whole thing.
18:31
Tom: Wow. Yeah, I didn't think of it that way. So, these folks also were this all happened just about the time people were being told to stay home and they couldn't stay home because their homes were flooded. Wow. That really added a lot of stress to it. So where are we at with that project now or are you done with? It's still ongoing?
18:47
Lance: Yeah. So, we ended up working in about 20 different units within about maybe 10 different floors or so of some different flooring products. And they were also working in tandem with painters and different people and getting things all together. And everybody was kind of hands-on deck there for several months. But I believe that, you know, the builder managed it really well. People's expectations were probably overly met in a lot of ways, and so people are getting back in their homes and think they're rounding out a really good corner right now, finishing up.
Leaning on Leadership to Solve Biggest Business Challenges
19:16
Tom: So, have you evolved this business over the last 10 or so years? What are some of the biggest challenges that you feel like you've needed to overcome?
19:23
Lance: And that's a hard question. So, you know, one of the biggest things is I would have to say is expanding, growing. You know, a lot of times we plan for success, right? We want to be successful. We want more work. But when it actually comes, you know, how do you translate the culture you built of doing things the right way or doing things a certain way and translating that into other areas or into different markets where you don't necessarily have as much control? And I think that a big part of that is maybe just kind of leaning on leadership, leaning on the wisdom and advice of other contractors, which is one reason why I'm really excited about this podcast and appreciative of what you guys are doing right now. Because through this, you have to lean on others. You have to lean on others to be able to see things and hear things, and to maybe also understand that other people are experiencing what you're experiencing. And how do we how do we grow in those areas? And maybe not always just be seen as competitors can be seen as companions, too.
20:23
Tom: That's a great line. Yeah, because I think that sometimes when you are in your own personal business, in your space, in a particular market or a set of markets, your kind of tight lipped. I mean, the construction industry has always been this way. I remember reading about one hundred years ago, if you were the guy that knew how to hand-cut the roof rafters, man, you didn't tell anybody how to do that because that was your job, right? You shared that tip on how to do that when you were out of work and would hire somebody younger and cheaper and get it done faster. So those were closely held trade secrets. And I think that sort of is pervasive in the industry and understandably so, and there's some good reason behind that. But at the same time, there's a lot we can learn from each other, and that's why we were, you know, hoping in this program that we could expand those local boundaries and kick it out to the entire community for that kind of advice. So, what's an example of something that maybe you wouldn't have thought about had you not heard it from one of these experienced pros that you're lucky enough to connect with?
21:20
Lance: Yeah, so just some advice. I had an older businessman that had he kind of. He kind of took me under his wing, and he's open and sold all the businesses and, you know, kind of dabbled in a lot of different areas of just entrepreneurship, you could say. And so something he had taught me was a lot of times we deal with daily stresses, of course, right? You know, this didn't go right today, and I've got this going on and this person's wait for a call. They just have so many different things that are so common to contractors and the remodelers and just building professionals in general. And some advice he gave me was as far as being a young man, getting stressed out and having a family and taking that kind of stuff home. He just advised me, "Listen, if it's a problem that can be solved with money, it's probably not a problem." And I guess what it means is not that we're all made of money, but that maybe if it's something that can be worked on something that maybe it can be discounted, maybe it's something that can be, you know, reimbursed something like that. It's probably not worth, you know, that level of stress and anxiety and that sort of thing that you take on them ourselves, because ultimately it can be fixed. And as you know, as you grow in this profession, there's other problems that you have that are a lot bigger than money.
22:30
Tom: That's right. Yeah. The way you define a problem change just is this anybody that had their house flooded during COVID in the tower and had no place to go back to right?
22:41
Lance: Yes, exactly right.
22:43
Tom: Well, it sounds like you've taken that advice to heart. And I think it's kind of another way to say that is just keep everything in the right perspective, right? Keep it proper balance active on not only the work, but also your home life and everything that happens in between. It sounds like you've done that successfully. You've got to understand a half dozen full time employees. Now you've got vehicles, you've got jobs going on all over the area from Amarillo down to Baton Rouge. That transformation is growing and adding is not always a smooth one. How have you been able to navigate that one day at a time?
23:17
Lance: You know, I mean, that's the best. That's the best way to look at. It is little by little, right? And sometimes you grow fast and sometimes you grow slow. But you know what? We're always growing. And so, like I said, making sure that we're planning, we're setting expectations and we're trying to do do it right, do the best job we can one day at a time.
Making the Cut: Elvis Presley’s Builder Provided Valuable Perspective
23:36
Tom: We're talking to Lance O'Dell. He is the president of Wright Flooring Services based out of Austin, Texas. Hey, I heard about another job that you did, Lance, I want to ask you about. I understand that you actually did a home for a client whose father was a contractor. And not only that, he built the home for Elvis Presley. So, man, I bet your client had some stories about that and also set some really high standards for you to live up to.
24:04
Lance: Man, that's one way to put it, you know. I mean, you're talking about there, they're husband and wife, team builder, contractor, you know, couple. And they've been in industry over 40 years, building custom homes all over the world, in fact. She had quite a few homes going on at the time when, we were doing her personal house here in Austin, in Hawaii, and she was telling me, you know, I'm thinking, Man, I had a really bad day one day and she comes in and she's a little upset and we're talking. And I said, "What happened?" She's like, "Oh, we just had a container show up and got all my cabinets, you know, in Hawaii and open up the cabinets, seawater, seawater all the way through to the top." And so I'm thinking I got problems, right? And yeah, she's doing it daily. So yeah, hopefully that works out for them.
24:49
Tom: Well, I think it's a testimony to the quality of your work in your business. When you have a professional builder with plenty of projects on their own, hire you for their personal house. So, I I think that the deserve giving yourself a pat on the back for that one. And let me ask you a final question, and that is that when you started the business, what did you wish you knew? What's the one thing I wish I knew back then that has helped me get to where I am today?
What I Wish I Knew: It’ll Be OK
25:15
Lances: That's an interesting question. I guess an older need. When I told a younger me, it's all going to work out. You know, it's all going to work out. It's all going to be okay because, you know, sometimes this the pace of life and the pace of your business and growing your business in tandem with just the world around you. You know, a lot of us are fathers and mothers and, you know, homemakers and home and also living a life, you know, I mean, you've got a meeting with a client and then you've got to head to T-ball practice, you know, and then it's how it is right in the running, in both lanes at the same time. And I wish I had maybe just known it's all going to work out. It's all going to be okay and maybe lived a little bit closer and worried a little bit less.
26:01
Tom: Well, it sounds like it all has worked out and will continue to do so. Lance O'Dell, thank you so much for sharing your experience on the Pro-file's podcast.
26:10
Lance: Appreciate it! It's been an honor.